An email thread

between Simona and I, spawned by this article about the "thresholders," the demographic phenomenonen of twentysomethings who aren't adolescents but not quite adults.

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:30:25 -0800 (PST)
From: "Simona"
Subjt: Re: [TottoriExchange] I am Jeff Cho and I approve the following statement
To: "thejeffcho"

Interesting article. In what sense do you approve it?

My question is, who is this body of concerned citizens who feel that we are not on the track we should be? And what is it, exactly, that they are so concerned
about?

I understand the phenomenon and even the alarm and lack of understanding, but throughout the piece (and if you ever spend 5 minutes listening to my Swiss
relatives talk about my future) there is a definite conviction that I had better hurry up and get things figured out. Do they mean, before it's too late?

Before it's too late for what, exactly? Before I stop being able to have children and the population dies out? This is the underlying worry that I don't understand. I don't intend to give up, and I don't intend to starve. Why are they so afraid for me?

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:17:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jeff Cho"
Subjt: Re: [TottoriExchange] I am Jeff Cho and I approve the following statement
To: "Simona"

I have a feeling, that this one might turn into a save-worthy email thread. What do you think about the idea that we invite other people for some kind of
discussion? Directly on the exchange maybe?

I really like the attitude you have on being a thresholder, the kind of me-against-the-world (maybe too much) or this-is-the-way-it-should-be (more
accurate?) attitude.

I don't think that the piece is CONVINCED that we're lagging, period. I think that it merely points out that, we are lagging, from the standards of
generations past. It does a good job straddling both sides, both the pluses and minuses, as well as some of the causes of this curious period between adolescence
and full-on adulthood.

As for the body of concerned citizens, I think a few of them have firmly taken root in my own consciousness, as you must have noticed. I don't think I am doing the wrong thing by taking my time, but I want to start doing the right thing as soon as possible. I guess I feel like I'm still not on The Path yet.

I don't worry as much bout love anymore. To be honest, I haven't even thought about family. But I worry about my career constantly, and about reaping material and
psychological stability/satisfaction from it.

cho

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 21:12:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Simona"
Subject:Re: [TottoriExchange] I am Jeff Cho and I approve the following statement
To: thejeffcho@yahoo.com

If you want to ask people for their thoughts on the exchange, go ahead...I think it's sort of a personal discussion at heart, but there might be some interested peeps.

But I'm interested. Yes, I would agree that you do seem concerned with the Path.

> ...thresholder, the kind of me-against-the-world
(maybe
> too much) or this-is-the-way-it-should-be (more
> accurate?) attitude.

I think I would classify my point of view as more of a this-is-a-viable-option attitude.

> I don't think that the piece is CONVINCED that we're
> lagging, period. I think that it merely points out
> that, we are lagging, from the standards of
> generations past.

The follow-up article, however, gives a to-do list of antidotes for your child becoming what we are. The article is good but there is still a leaning in the
direction of steps to be taken to fix this apparent problem. And I reiterate, my aunt and uncle (for example) are seriously not down with the direction my
life is taking.

I think they may be worried, because they are afraid that this kind of life (hopping jobs and homes) is not sustainable. Maybe they are worried that if I end up jobless because I didn't train in a specific career, I will suddenly end up on the street and become dependent on them somehow.

Alternatively, they may be worried that I will be looked down upon for being a wandering hippie who is unable to commit to anything. Some jobs command more
respect on a business card than others (doctor, CEO)but why does the lack of a permanent occupation deserve disrespect? What is it about us that is threatening to the older generation?

> want to start doing the right thing as soon as
> possible. I guess I feel like I'm still not on The
> Path yet.

Perhaps (and this is a jump, sorry) it has something to do with people's own insecurities about their position in life, that they worry on behalf of those
whom they feel have even less stability. Some kind of sympathetic fear complex. Maybe it's about their own　fears.

You touched on this in your comment about finding the　right path. At this point I veer off into　philosophical territory and start asking, what is this　Path? Is there a particular Path for me? Does the Path　consist of doing certain things, or is there something　more fundamental?

Specifically, I wonder, should I be worried about what　I do, or should I worry more about what I am, and let　what I do be secondary, an expression of what kind of
person I am or want to be? Your career, after all, is　just a series of activities you pursue in your life.

But some kind of stability and security are necessary,of course. I can pursue my dreams all I want but if I　can't pay my bills all this academic meandering goes
out the window pretty quickly. So here's what it comes　down to for me. At least from where I stand now, at　this point in my twenty-something life:

My career is a balance. I want to pursue a dozen　dreams, and I see absolutely no reason why I should　not, and a thousand reasons [consistent with my　beliefs and goals for personal development] why I　should.

But I need to eat, so when I look at my options, I　need to consider whether the leap I am considering is　something I can afford, and what it means to me. I try
to live not cheaply or frugally (two qualities I hate)　but consistent with values I believe in, with a firm　check on accumulation of material goods. I save money
when I can, because I do believe you have to plan some　things--you have to think ahead to remain independent　and take care of yourself.

Dreams in balance with physical reality, and the fact　that life is short. I could be a professor at a major　university with 14 books and a big house, and get an
incurable cancer. What sort of satisfaction would I　have then? As someone who sees the value in meditation　I think you must also sense that peace and　psychological stability ultimately come from within　yourself.

Ask me questions. Put me in my place.
-Simona

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 21:39:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "Simona"
Subject:Re: [TottoriExchange] I am Jeff Cho and I approve the following statement
To: thejeffcho@yahoo.com

You know, I just got done with that long rant, and it　occured to me that there is another facet, namely, the　family.

Like you, I'm barely even giving it any thought at　this point. I guess I just assume it will happen at　some point. And at that point, I do think that　marriage, and especially children, are things that　will probably require a different lifestyle than the　nomadic job-to-job one.

I don't feel in a position to even make any comments　on this yet. I'm not ready for it, and I'm not　interested. But I think this would be one of the best　arguments in a case for working towards social and　financial stability.

Not that it negates a need for seeking the inner kind　of stability, or for a (perhaps decade-long) period of　exploration and discovery. It's more like a really
good case for contraception before you've settled down　a bit.

Simona

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:03:10 -0800 (PST)
From: "Simona"
Subject:Re: [TottoriExchange] I am Jeff Cho and I approve the following statement
To: thejeffcho@yahoo.com

Either you're working on a rebuttal, or you're
studying Japanese, or I done killed this thing dead...

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:04:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jeff Cho"
Subject:Re: [TottoriExchange] I am Jeff Cho and I approve the following statement
To: "Simona"

> article is good but there is still a leaning in the
> direction of steps to be taken to fix this apparent
> problem.

Orange County where I am from is no Beverly Hills, but calling it well-to-do is starting to be an understatement. I have seen a lot of people our age falling into the darker side of the thresholder phenomenon, taking 5+ years to graduate COMMUNITY
college and living at home, or worse, having moved out but remained on their (probably close to millionaire) parents' payroll. I think the antitode sounding
portion of the article has some merits, considering that some of these guys that I went to school (high school and briefly at community college) with really
could use some serious help.

> but why does the lack of a permanent occupation
> deserve disrespect? What is it about us that is
> threatening to the older generation?

I think the lack of a permanent career-track job does not necessarily deserve disrespect, but there's a definite difference between uncommital job-hopping and
unemployed hustlin'. I don't think it's okay to just wonder for wondering's sake. At this point in my life, I am searching, but I need to constantly check myself
so that I am not searching aimlessly, because a pointless search is just that, pointless.

> Specifically, I wonder, should I be worried about
> what I do, or should I worry more about what I am,
and
> let what I do be secondary, an expression of what
kind
> of person I am or want to be? Your career, after
all,
> is just a series of activities you pursue in your
> life.

Well said. I must admit that I sometimes get lost by defining my career by the density and quality of my resume. But can you really separate who you are from
what you do? If one's sense of self is so strong and so sharpened, then everything they do naturally reflects who they are. However, for the rest of us
mere mortals, we need an external source to mold and shape our sense of self.

> My career is a balance. I want to pursue a dozen
> dreams, and I see absolutely no reason why I should
> not, and a thousand reasons [consistent with my
> beliefs and goals for personal development] why I
> should.
>
> But I need to eat...

I'm not talking about paying the bills at all. In fact, I am reasonably confident that whatever I choose to do I will be modestly successful at it I won't ever
have to worry about bills.

Like you, I am a dreamer. And only a very minor part of my many dreams can be satisfied by my career alone, but I want a career that gives me the time and money
and peace of mind to pursue my other dreams. And it's not a luxury thing. For example, I don't ever want to be a yacht owner, but I really, really like to someday
travel around the world on a sailboat.

> I could be a professor at a major
> university with 14 books and a big house, and get an
> incurable cancer. What sort of satisfaction would I
> have then? As someone who sees the value in
> meditation I think you must also sense that peace
and
> psychological stability ultimately come from within
> yourself.

The reason I picked up meditation is precisely because I know that it's true but I can't live by it yet. I would love to do without wanting/needing the accolades
but I spent more than 2/3 of my life accumulating them and it's a hard habit to break.

Just got your third email. This isn't a rebuttal, but your emails have gotten me into such a self-reflecting loop that it's just taking forever to sort out. There's so much more but I need to wrap this up and finish my Japanese.

cho

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:35:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Simona"
Subject:out of session
To: thejeffcho@yahoo.com

I second the motion to get some Japanese done. In fact I am going to do just that. Seriously. I mean for real. So, I will see you in about 4 hours. Love,
Simona

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:38:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jeff Cho"
Subject:Re: [TottoriExchange] I am Jeff Cho and I approve the following statement
To: "Simona"

Ah, a fresh email.

About the major professorship and 14 books comment. You hit the crux of the problem.

Everyone needs to achieve some level of accomplishment, any kind of accomplishment, that's on par with one's expectation of her/himself, in order to be happy. I use "accomplishment" in the very abstract sense: even enlightenent, the "end goal" of
meditation, when one feels no attachment to any accomplishment, is an accomplishment in itself.

I have high expectations of myself, so naturally I have high expectations on expressions of myself. Yes, I won't be happy with a professorship and 14 books if
I had cancer, but I won't be happy if I had cancer and never had a chance to express myself properly. And when I express myself properly, I expect the end result to be good enough to warrant all that stuff.

Call me vain or haughty or an egomaniac, but I have always believed that I am more able, in every sense of the word, than 90 percent of the population. So if my
career does not reflect that than in a sense I have not expressed myself properly.

Because of all that, wanting or needing the major professorship and those 14 books does not necessarily mean that peace and happiness does not come from within. I always want to do the best I can, and I feel that my best ought to be pretty damn good.

It's a fine line to walk, between vanity and excellence, between doing my best and doing better than others. I admit that sometimes I'm not sure if I'm walking on the right side of the line.

God, did you realize how many times I've used I, My, Me, Mine? Now you see why I want to meditate? I am pretty far from the no-attachment ideal.

cho

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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:41:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jeff Cho"
Subject:Re: out of session
To: "Simona"

don't reply to my last email. japanese japanese japanese....

cho